Keth's got your BC Update!

As you know I've been wining and moaning to get an inside look at the new expansion Loot, and dying to know whether our new MC lewtz are going to be obsolete. Well I had my friend at blizzard, Eyonix, write me a little something about that(or I could've just copied and pasted).

as quoted from Eyonix!
"MMORPGs are about continued progression and World of Warcraft is no different in that regard. We don't want anyone to feel as though their efforts obtaining items were in vain, however, we don't want to prevent players from evolving either. The gear you spent time gathering will help you in Outlands by giving you an edge in leveling and obtaining better equipment. The fact is, once the Burning Crusade launches and players (all players regardless of gear) have an opportunity to improve their character further through leveling and itemization, it will be both exciting and new.

Imagine an item you spent forever trying to obtain in current World of Warcraft, such as the Scarlet Boots from the Monetary, or a particular piece of your tier 1 armor set. I'm sure every level 60 whose spent time focusing on progressing their character though itemization can think of an example of an item that took forever to gather that they no longer wear because they've since found an upgrade.

My point is in current WoW, when you've finally upgraded an item, regardless of the time invested, were you upset that your previous efforts were in vain, or were you simply excited to get a new item that had better stats? I know I personally worked hard on some of my tier 1 gear back when that was the best option available for my character. When I finally replaced those pieces, I could care less about my previous time investment. I was happy to have something better than before.

You can't "win" World of Warcraft, and if your goal is to spend time getting the best gear in the game and remain at the top, you'll be disappointed because we're constantly going to introduce more powerful equipment and unless you continue to work towards the progression of your character, a particular patch or expansion will leave you looking a little outdated."
end quote

So basically Yeah, everything we're getting before BWL/AQ40/Naxx will be obsolete by our first 5-man Dungeon in BC. Don't panic! Because this is all theoritically pre-expansion. So much can change.

A better more brightside way to look at it is this:

1.Our Pre BWL/Naxx epics will only help us progress and level further into BC faster therefore letting us get to more material in BC.

2.If you have any high level alts and are dreading the grind in BRD/Scholo/Strath/BRS, get em to 60 pre expansion with mediocre greens and watch his/her gear sky rocket in Outland and advance into BWL quality gear without ever touching a 40-man raid.

3.I see 40 man raid dungeons like BWL and AQ 40becoming easier and done more for fun and filler gear with the more and more higher levels we become.

Here are the opinions of the beta testers at IGN.com
Green Loot:
Green loot drops at 60 vary, however in many cases they appear to be at least equal to or better than Zul’Garub equipment and quickly ramp up from there. In some cases, it is even equal to or better than some Molten Core drops. Soloers and casual players will definitely enjoy this aspect and will definitely be upgrading right off the bat. Keep in mind that not every piece of loot you find will be “better”, some will still suck, some you will value differently than other people, etc.

Quest Loot:
Green and Blue quest loot at level 60-62 is very good from what I am seeing so far and if you look below into the Quest Loot section, you can see some of it. Will it offer upgrades for the Molten Core, BWL and Naxramas raiders? Yes and no. Some of the level 60-62 quest loot is better than MC loot, some of it isn't. People with Blackwing Lair and Naxxramas equipment will probably be waiting a while longer before quest loot starts to surpass their equipment, but obviously there are always exceptions.

Blue Instance Loot:
The level 60-63 Hellfire Citadel instances are dropping loot that is in most cases is equal to and in many cases, is usually exceeding Tier 1 and other Molten Core loot. In a few cases, I have seen some socketed items that will probably replace the odd bits of Blackwing Lair loot. One rogue in partial Tier 2 said he would rather have the socketed leather chest piece I have shown above than his Tier 2 chest piece. I am sure others would disagree with him, but again, it varies from person to person.

From my discussions with other players, the level 63-66 Coilfang Reservoir and Auchindoun Instances are dropping loot that is equal to, marginally better than or greatly better than Blackwing Lair loot. In many cases, people are opting for the socketed sets over their existing loot but this appears to vary on the person and many want the extra stamina appearing in items. Others are opting to go with their Tier 2, due to set bonuses.

Some high level players say they are seeing plenty of level 67 blue instance loot that is better than Nax loot, so it appears that you can start upgrading Naxx loot at ~67, with some Naxx pieces lasting you longer and other pieces getting upgrades sooner. I can not given definitive answers yet and my guess is that it will totally vary anyways.

Purple/Epic Loot:
I have not seen any Epic loot out of Hellfire Citadel yet, however I would imagine it will be awesome stuff…

you can check out the article yourself at
http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Columns.Detail&id=171

Readin this keth, 2 things stick out.

Firstly, the 60-63 Instance gear that is Blue is equal or greater than MC gear. That means that as we enter those instances with our MC gear, we will be better matched than most in their wimpy greens from level 60 BC (which MC gear is better than).

Therefore it is suggesting that as a starter we will be better off in our gear and should be able to finish these insatnces quicker than those without MC gear. Furthermore, they dont mention Set Bonuses. You wotn get those with these random blues and thus i imagine people with full Might will stay in that up to 63-64 easily for the set bonuses. Others like myself who havent completed their sets are likely to swap in and out some of the items, for example my shoulders (valor) will be swapped out immediately. The other items are all Purple and im likely to keep some, get rid of others depending.

Secondly, if Naxx gear is not outdated until 67, at 63 we could take 30-40 people to Naxx, own the place get our tier 3 gear and use it up through to level 67. For 1 night a week i will happily continue to raid in a 40man group to get better gear which will assist me in levelling up.

This info suggests a tier 3 player will own the lvl 60-65 content which makes it very much worthwhile. I think i would still suggest raiding but maybe try and skip content like BWL and hit Naxx.

Further to that, i enjoy raiding for the challenge, once we start to level a little and have some 63's in our group BWL will be easier, the damage output of you Keth could increase hugely and thus take Rag down in 4/5's the time, etc etc. So it may be worht continuing our progress to aid our transition into BC. I really do like the idea that until level 67 Tier 3 is viable and think that is actually worth trying to get to when were all level 63 or so.

Anyways just food for thought. I also have to say that i like the fact that the set armour looks the same and is design as an outfit, unlike the pieced together random drops that perhaps may you look like a walking scrap heap (at least i did in the past).

Agreed 100%, the blues not having set bonuses are totally a good point. And I'm still gonna be gung ho about getting the last 3 pieces I need for Arcanist! And don't get me wrong I love raiding. I raid for both the challenging different battles and the story content. And I think the idea of skipping BWL and hitting Naxx when our Alpha team is 3/4 full of 63s would be a great Idea!!! We gotta another month or so addition to the Expansion release so hellz yeah lets keep raiding!

things on my mind: whats gonna happen to BRD/Scholo/Strat/BRS/DM? I really think they're gonna become ghost dungeons, maybe visited by the random lvler with his lvl 70 friends. Hopefully they make quests in BC to go back to those places so we can own with our new BC lewtz!

oh and what was Blizzard thinking when they made the Warrior tier 2.5 set Doko?? That looks like a walking hunk of scrap metal!

Is the T2.5 the Commanders set or something? Ugly orange and purple and very strange shaped?

To be honest, until Tier 3 which has some questions still, Blizz took the mick outta warriors. I mean seriously, Axes on heads and shoulders, just doesnt fly with me, that was a windup by one of the designers that got through the Mgt who assumed they were serious. Theres no way anyone could think that was a good looking Tank set.

I think those smaller dungeons will go the way of those we levelled past. They will become places to farm quick items in small groups for fun and a bit of cash as we level. Then helping people get their alts levelled up. But even then they have insatnces starting at lvl 60 and places to level at 56 i think so a lot may skip them.

Kethluos wrote:

what was Blizzard thinking when they made the Warrior tier 2.5 set Doko?? That looks like a walking hunk of scrap metal!

I think the general consensus when AQ40 went live was that the designers of the 2.5 sets were watching Power Rangers a bit too much during the Alpha...have you seen the Rogue set? Yeesh

Yeah I think thats the set! Ugly as hell! As of the Dreadnaught set for warriors I like it! Speaking of which I have yet to see a class specification on it, which leads me to believe that anyone who can wear plate(pallys) can wear the set. Which sux for you(warriors) because you have no need for any +healing plate stats yet a pally could pick it up like some Pallys did with Valor for their Backup Tanking gear. But then again your a Warrior and if you felt like wearing the FrostFire set you could just for the hell of it unlike mages who are stuck with just cloth sets. Anyways if you find any evidence that proves my theory wrong let me know.

Valor Set = best looking Warrior set IMO!

Cool BC Idea :: Race Sets!!
It would work the same way the BG sets do with Humans vs Orcs
Lets say a Tier 4 set comes out for Mages, lets call it Arcanum Regalia!
Lets say Arcanum Crown drops for Keth and he equips it. But when he equips it, it recognizes his race(human) and it show up a Dark Blue Hood with blue Orbs revolving around it. Now lets say Piper has the same piece yet on her(since shes a gnome) it looks more like the Magister's crown but Dark Blue with a crystal hovering on top! That way when were standing together in raids throwing bolts it doesnt look like there's a midget version of me. haha! Of course that would take way too much creativity to make with 10 races.

Kethluos wrote:

I have yet to see a class specification on it, which leads me to believe that anyone who can wear plate(pallys) can wear the set.

The reason there's no class specification on it is because while the items required to get the armor are for multiple classes (similar to ZG and AQ40) only the specific class has access to the quest that actually gives you the armor in question. Otherwise you'd see Druids running around in Bonescythe and such

Short of the people, like myself, who want to kerpwn Ragnaros a few times for revenge, I fully expect to see Molten Core and BWL cease to exist. The stuff you can get off of trash mobs in the BC expansion areas is too useful.

About 2 months ago I spent 3 weeks working up my AV faction so I could get the Shadow Tome. +34 shadow damage and a pitiful amount of Stamina. The first green drop I got in the Outlands, off of a trash, level 61 orc, was an off hand orb. It required level 59 to equip, bind on equip.

.. +31 shadow damage ..

Who would grind AV if they can just hang out in the Outlands and get better gear. By the same token, who would go through the pain in the Imp process of gearing up for MC and then BWL to get things that are outdated by level 63? Personally, I'd consider getting a group together who can head into Naxxramas just to poke around and try to farm the trash mobs for a while so that when we start getting to levels 62-65 we can just waltz through the instance for epic drops.

~Atharyn

Ohhhh Ath, i like that idea. I thinkk there will be a need to have some Tier 2 gear to handle Naxx, as they are progressions and the stats are reuqired. However, the trash could be taken im sure and then as we level to 62-63-64-65 we could crusie through Naxx i believe.

Anyways, be interesting to see how it goes and what can be done as BC releases. In the meantime we have extra time to work on BWL. Also note that they have delayed release for what most believe are critical errors in the Beta version, ones that need to be fixed before the product can be released.

At point of release remember the efforts required to burn Cd's and get them to the stores etc etc. That in mind, i wouldnt bet against there being a second delay for a further few months, where testing needs to occur again.

Blizz wont delay the dates now however as people will still be asking for BC for Xmas, the concept being it gets delivered just after. However if blizz announced the delay to be in April or something then people will think twice about buying BC for xmas.

anyways just my 2 pennys worth.

Im afraid Piper will always be a mini you Keth. In all seriousness, the idea is good but also provides other issues. Changing of gear for each race will mean it is harder to distinguish who is who and what class. This causes great problems for recognition. A lot of the armour and gear is visually dependant and the pride of wearing all Dreadnaught is that everyone can see. If you were to change this too much it reduces the impact of seeing who wears what.

As for Valor, i hate it but i guess thats because ive been in it for a while. The Head of the Valor and Might sets are poor in my view. A strong front line tank should have something covering their whole head to that any shards that break off their blade in battle dont go in their eyes. I mean seriously, can you accept me wailing on Rag and suddenly yelling "STOP, Stop stop stop, ive got a shard in my eye again, hang on rag, lemme just get this thing out!"

The Dread is the best set in my opinion now, it isnt amazing and i think i could do better (as always) but i do like it. However i think the better sets are the Lock and Mage sets. I think the Mage one is either T3 or a PVP set, but has little spike sticking up in the air. The Lock set ath has looks awsome to me, i think it somes up the lock and the colours fit with natures warning of something volatile beneath (im talking about the Lock not Atharyn).

Anyways, Blizz will always design crazy stuff. The new PVP gear T4 from BC looks really good in my view, i think they are getting better with their designs, but am curious about where they go next.

Either way Gnome Warriors in Dread are the Shiiidd! Then its might for me, god danng i hope i get my might shoulders soon!

random reply to keth's armor preference...

Tier 3 Druid Set FTW!

I think it's the best looking set for a Druid.

agreed Tier 3 Druid set might just be the coolest looking set in the whole game!! As for Mages I like the Tier 1 Arcanist set over the Tier 2 Netherwind. The Netherwind is too Tron-like. Then although its too Polar looking I do like the Tier 3 Frostfire set!

Just an update, there will be a patch coming between now and the BC and it is going to be quite interesting - thread here. The biggest thing will be something Drysc addressed in response to someone asking if the new talents in the patch would include the 41 point talents and changes and his reply was -

Drysc wrote:

It would be a full release of the new trees up to the 41 point talents, including all of the changes, class ability changes, etc.

So yeah...anyone else going to be respeccing for 41 point talents?

Konorel wrote:

So yeah...anyone else going to be respeccing for 41 point talents?

Boo-friggin-yeah. Demonic Knowledge and Mana Feed are going to be extremely useful in end-game raiding for Warlocks. Demonic Knowledge will also be extremely useful for PVP.

For those of you who haven't seen the talents yet, Demonic knowledge gives you a bonus to your +spell damage based on the stamina and intellect of the pet you are currently using. Mana feed gives the pet mana every time you case Lifetap - one third per rank. What does this mean? No more watching my Imp run out of mana in Molten Core! I'll be able to recharge the little bugger without having to resummon him.

~Atharyn

I'm quite tempted to give up some of my points in Assassination Tree to pick up the 41 pt Combat talent. An extra 8% damage to my BS and it can no longer be dodged? Heck yeah, sign me up!

So who else besides me and Ath?

/Sign

It's official...for now anyways. BC is set to release January 16th 2007

I have a Mortal Strike Warrior and an Arcane Mage...both have invested in 41 point talents.

What do I think of the 41 pt talents? Not much

25% Rage Generation for a MS Warrior...great for long drawn out battles...useless for an alliance PvP player. I never get heals and am usually the first target...I am dead before I can use the rage. If I have the rage, my abilities are still on cooldown.

What I need is a devastating ability that makes my attack really lethal...like Flurry! So I would much rather go with 31/30/0...MS+Flurry!!

50% Slow on the Mage's Arcane Tree...seems like something plucked out of a Lock's Affliction Tree. I suspect this will be purely a PvP talent and Blizz will make all bosses and possibly elite trash mobs immune to Slow.

Shouldn't a mage be given a lethal attack like the rogue's 41 pt talent?

That said..I love the 31-40 point talents!!! In any talent tree!

Admittedly I dont really know what to make of the 41 point talents yet. I am too used to a certain playstyle..I forget to cast Slow for example.

Since Kono is STILL my only high level toon (for some reason work still wants me coming in regularly and my g/f seems to think spending time together is good for the relationship) I can only speak on the Rogue talents but so far I'm loving them. Right after Patch 2.0 I specced Mutilate since I had stopped raiding till the BC and wanted to PvP more. It.is.AWESOME. With few exceptions I can absolutely decimate any class in BGs and often can take on 2-3 people at once and come out on top. The poison reliance of the talent has scared some folks off from it but I picked up 5/5 Imp. Poisons and 2/2 Master Poisoner so my poison application is lightning fast when combined with my 3 piece BF set bonus (+5% to poison app). Some other small changes to the talents and class have helped, like keeping my CPs on someone if I target someone else as long as I don't apply new CPs to the new target and the change to Imp Sap (LOVE IT). I'm finding it wicked easy to grind with in Outland too, I've gone up against level 62 and 63 mobs at 60 and come out without a scratch on me.

As far as the other talents, I haven't tried them but the only other one that impresses me at all is Shadowstep. I've seen other Rogues with it in action and I have to admit it's pretty sweet. It's the kind of talent that really makes a Rogue a caster killer since you can pop in behind that Mage that's AoEing your pals and pretty much insta-gib him with an Ambush or pop up to that Priest or Druid that's running the flag in WSG and slow or stop him while the rest of your group catches up. It's a very wicked talent and something I might experiment with at some point, probably after 70 if I decide to do Arenas more than raiding.

Surprise Attacks was something I was initially very excited about but have been let down yet again. Originally it was supposed to make BS, SS and Evis undodgeable and boost their damage by 8% which was great but for some reason Blizzard thought it would be OP'd and nerfed it to only affect finishers. Since Combat is primarily the tree for raiding Rogues it was a HUGE nerf for us since the only finisher we use in raids is SnD, barring the occasional Rupture which almost never misses anyways thanks to other talents that boost out +hit and weapon skill (something else that was nerfed to oblivion, screw you too Blizz). The nerf to SA was the primary motivation behind my speccing to the all-powerful Mutilate build.

The other talents in the Rogue trees have been very nice and something that I'm happy with. Fleet Footed procs the movement impair resist quite a bit for me and with resisted spells no longer breaking stealth thats just godly for me. Find Weakness is pretty much the best freaking talent in any tree right now for any class. In the Combat tree, Nerves of Steel is something I wish I could have as it's a great anti-Rogue/Feral Druid talent. Vitality could use a slight buff if you ask me but it's a nice idea and shows some good thinking on Blizz's part for a change. Combat Potency is interesting and at 70 when combined with Ruthlessness and Shiv could make for a sort of mini-Innervate for Combat Rogues. Blade Twisting sounds nice but I haven't heard very good things so far, apparently it's bugged to all hell right now. The Sub tree looks terribly fun now with the switch in location of Imp Sap (not to mention that it's now 100% stay in stealth!) and Elusiveness (which combined with the shortened CD for Blind means I have it up every 90 seconds, something Rogues have needed for a loooong time). Heightened Senses was a great addition and one that means Sub Rogues will always get the jump on me sadly, I just hope they're good at the stunlock or its a Blind to the face and a Mutilate to the back bwahahaha. Sinister Calling is a brilliant addition, nuff said there. Cheat Death sounds neat but I don't consider it much more than a toy compared to other stuff like Enveloping Shadows and Master of Subtlety which give some much needed buffs to the tree.

Overall, good stuff in the expansion so far. Now if people will stop logging on Bloodhoof all at once and crashing it so I can actually play...stupid lack of server power

I am looking for some online guides for grinding in Outlands, especially guides on Tanking the 5 man instances. I just received my expansion yesterday and I dont want to wipe groups when I am tanking because I dont know where I am going.

A quick guide to some good mobs to grind on in each zone-Grinding and Powerleveling Guide

And now, Konorel's thoughts on leveling in Outland...

Make sure to pick up every quest you can when you go to each new zone. Not only will it give you the best xp for your time but a lot of the quest rewards, even though they're greens, are better than the majority of MC gear and a lot of BWL gear as well. Not only that but almost every quest gives you rep with some faction or another and rep will be very important at 70 as you'll need at least revered with most factions in order to get your Heroic key for instances which in turn in necessary if you intend to get keyed for Kharazan and Mt. Hyjal as those quest lines require you complete many objectives in Heroic difficulty. I've hit 65 so far just playing 2-3 days a week for a few hours at a time and all because I blew through quite literally every quest in a zone before I moved on. I didn't leave a zone until I could find no more quest givers there and it really helped. I didn't have to upgrade much of my gear on account of it being pretty much BWL/AQ40 level so most of the quest rewards got vendored which made a TON of money. In addition, Blizz has engineered quest rewards in such a way that you should have more than enough for at least the 60% speed flying mount at 70 as it is a requirement for getting to the high level dungeons so don't sweat the cash issue on the flying mount unless you plan to skip the slow mount and go right to the epic one (which has a total cost of 6k gold between the mount and training just so's you know)

Also, if you're just starting out in the BC, be sure to get the fp at the portal and Honor Hold, then run to Telredor in Zangarmarsh and get that fp and then run to Shattrath City for that fp before you do anything else. Those will greatly help you move around quicker and easier between 60 and 65. While you're grinding and questing, be sure to be on the lookout for some items that will greatly help you in rep gains. In Zangarmarsh, keep any Unidentified Plant Parts you get as those will help you race to Honored with Cenarion Expedition. Also keep any Glowcaps and Strange Spores you get for Sporeggar reputation as thats where you'll get quests and the Heroic key for Coilfang. In Terrokar Forest, keep any Firewing Signets and Arcane Tomes you get if you're allying yourself with the Scryers and keep those Mark of Kil'jaden and Fel Armaments if you're going with Aldor (wowwiki has a great article on the comparison of rewards between the two to help you decide, and believe me it's a tough choice - Aldor v. Scryer)

As far as the tanking goes Yat, just do what you do bruh. One thing to be mindful of (as my brother discovered) is your level in comparison to the party when you enter an instance. Because of the way classes are scaling right now if you're two levels or more below them while tanking you are going to be extremely hard pressed to keep aggro unless they just really suck at their class. With the buffs to pally and bear tanking as well you'll have to watch things very closely. My brother is exceptionally talented on his Nelf warrior but he was hard pressed to keep aggro at 62 in Hellfire Ramparts while partied with his 64 Paladin friend, she was pulling aggro quite a bit as she dished out her retn00b damage because she has little in the way of aggro mitigation. And lets not talk about the Underbog run he did with a pal of our who was already 66 on his Rogue by the time my brother was 63...yeah...

In all honesty, bear tanks are more efficient in 5 mans for tanking right now because of the way their stats are scaling and how their threat gain and management work. They can build up a high burst of threat very quickly compared to most warriors pre-70. Their only downside is the total lack of block which means they take more direct damage but their high ac vs. warrior helps mitigate that somewhat. Don't let that get you down though, it's not like they're replacing you, it's just that the role of the tank is much more situational now that it was pre-expansion. You'll find in 5 mans that a paladin might work better in some situations (undead anyone?) and a bear tank might be good in others while a warrior will be excellent in still other situations. Other than that there isn't anything really special you need to know, if you had a good threat gain routine before the expansion it will still work marvelously in Outland. One thing I will say, try to spec something a bit more dps oriented for leveling or run with some friends as much as possible. As my brother can attest to, solo grinding and questing at a prot spec warrior is a very slow and very painful process that no one should endure lol.

Konorel wrote:

Because of the way classes are scaling right now if you're two levels or more below them while tanking you are going to be extremely hard pressed to keep aggro unless they just really suck at their class.

i concur. this is so true.

Thanks Kono - Awesome stuff! Perfect just what I was looking for!

Regarding Tanking in Outalnds...I am just putting my thoughts here so other warriors can add/subtract:

I have not faced any serious issues Tanking instances so far. I have done a few runs with players 2-3 levels higher and most classes with a 2-3 level advantage over me and the trash mobs can handle themselves. My priority is to tank the main target and save main healer and then the lower level squishies. It's harder holding aggro but my job is less challenging because I seldom encounter noobs. Most players I have grouped with have T2 epics and know their role in a group.

I have 0 points in Protection. So I know my limitations, but I am a reasonably experienced Tank and my groups have been quite surprised at my ability to hold aggro. I don''t. Basically I just plan well.

I crowd control like crazy and do my best not to have a lose mob running around. If I only have 1 trash mob to Tank, it's really easy to hold aggro..basically I hardly need to, I pick him up and he is dead before he knows it and aggroes on a party member.

If I do have a lose mob running around, I taunt the lose mob and ignore my previous target because he is already aggroed on me with 3-5 sunders, demo shout debuff and at less than half life. By the time someone pulls aggro off me, the mob is putty and soloable.

If it's more than 3 lose mobs then we are doing something wrong but that's the OTs problem.

Where I do run into more serious design limitations is boss fights. I need time to build up threat before I declare open season. I throw in a shield wall to help healers. I still have decent tanking gear... over 200 FR and with 0 points in protection I still have the highest threat generating tanking talent available to me...Revenge! I spam shield Block and Revenge a lot.

Finally, what Blizz seems to be trying to do is limit the ability of dps warriors to tank and create pure talent trees. Tactical Mastery used to be a highly sought after talent because it allowed you to retain rage while changing stances. Today, hardly anyone bothers with it even though its cost was reduced from 5 to 3 talent points because there are fewer hybrid specs around. Its just too damn tempting to max out one talent tree rather than throwing points around. Fury or Protection builds can easily warrant 48-51 talent points! Only Mortal Strike Warriors feel the need to invest in the Fury tree.

Basically, my role as a wanna-be-rogue-trying-to-tank warrior is facing a serious challenge. However, pure protection warriors have had several tanking abilities scaled up and been given all the talents they had been begging for years.

Main Tanking in 40 Man Raids was honestly the easiest job I did as a Warrior. I could spam anything and get away. The MT at my guild on Khaz'Gororth confessed that he never used Shield Block or Revenge (the guild had progressed to Naxx pre-BC). I was appalled!

So perhaps Blizz is making MT'ing more skill based instead of completely gear/talent build reliant by nerfing rage generation and also nerfing threat generating abilities of demo shout, battle shout, heroic strike.

Overall I am loving the new content/continent!

btw...how much +hit is enough? Everytime I have to choose between Attack Power or + Crit or +Hit, I pick +Hit. I want to know at what stage have I overdone it? Thought a rogue would know best.

Cheers!
yatish

Tantrik wrote:

btw...how much +hit is enough? Everytime I have to choose between Attack Power or + Crit or +Hit, I pick +Hit. I want to know at what stage have I overdone it? Thought a rogue would know best.

Pre-BC, +5% to hit was the accepted amount to make up for the base miss rate on special attacks. Dual wielding, if you want to make up totally for the base miss chance you were looking at having to get above +25% to hit to cover both specials as well as white damage. I'm not sure if these numbers have changed on the way to 70 or not yet as I'm not there (only 66 atm...whoo CloS!) but this should give you an idea. When I was raid spec, Combat Daggers, I shot for between 15-18% hit which was easy enough with my Combat talents giving me 5% to hit. Right now I'm running about 6% hit with a Mutilate spec which is sufficient for now. I only run into problems when facing mobs 2 or more levels above me which is why I'm not too focused on it right now.

If you're going to be a DW warrior I'd suggest trying to keep above 5-6% for now and shoot for 10-15% at 70 once you start getting the high end blues and epics again. While leveling it's not really feasible to go out of your way to get +hit gear as those stats will be scaling down more and more as you level. I was appalled at my hit and crit rates the other day when I hit 66 and realized I'd lost about 3-4% hit and almost 5% crit because of stat scaling. I've made up for some of it now with a few upgrades I got last night that have some gem sockets (hint:when you get to Nagrand, PvP your ass off in Halaa with a group and get the belt and pants they have. AWESOME stuff) but I know I'll lose stats again very soon.

If you're going with a 2h spec then don't bother with +hit too much, it won't impact you nearly as much as DW. The main reason you want +hit for a DW spec is to help compensate for the OH penalty to your hit rate and damage, which if memory serves is a base 50% penalty for damage and 25% for hit on the OH weapon. With a 2h you don't have that concern so +hit isn't something to worry about.

And just to give you an idea of the stat benefits in the BC now, at 60 you only need 10 hit rating points for 1% hit whereas at 70 you'll need a hair over 15 for 1% hit. A good description of combat ratings can be found here. Hope this helps

[quote="Konorel...If you're going to be a DW warrior I'd suggest trying to keep above 5-6% for now and shoot for 10-15% at 70 once you start getting the high end blues and epics again. While leveling it's not really feasible to go out of your way to get +hit gear as those stats will be scaling down more and more as you level. quote]

Thanks Kono! I have specced DW Fury with Precision which gives me +3% Hit. I have been picking up +hit gear whenever I can and am now at around 9-10% +Hit. I was also wondering how weapon speed impacts the equation...right now both my weapons are about the same speed 2.0 and 2.10...I see Fury warriors with a hard hitting Main Hander (2.80) and a fast Off Hand weapon (1.3 to 1.7).

I am loving the Fury build because the new talents compensate crap gear much better. I geta lot more Attack Power and +Hit form my build alone.
Though Blizz is being really kind to fury warriors, there is tons of good green/blue gear around including quest rewards.

Its an awesome pve grinding spec...crazy dps with no aggro ceiling...and the dps just keeps scaling up as the fight gets longer!

Tantrik wrote:

right now both my weapons are about the same speed 2.0 and 2.10...I see Fury warriors with a hard hitting Main Hander (2.80) and a fast Off Hand weapon (1.3 to 1.7)

Most of the reason you'll see DW folks with a slow MH weapon is because as a rule a slower weapon will have a higher max and average damage than a faster one which results in bigger crits and higher white damage. While I can't remember what instant attacks aren't normalized for warriors, I know Hemo rogues have always preferred weapons around the 2.7-2.9 range because Hemmorhage wasn't hit with the normalization nerf meaning it's damage forumla still use weapon speed as a mutiplier rather than the flat 2.4 modifier (the formula being AP/14*Weapon Modifier, in this case that modifier being weapon speed) so that is a factor to look at too when you're choosing weapons if you have any instants you use that aren't normalized. Otherwise, 2.0 or so is great for you because you'll be generating massive rage from normal attacks.